Q: If you had to distill everything you’ve learned from your years of teaching into one piece of wisdom, what would it be?
Padma: What Patanjali says, in sutra 15 of the 4th pada, pretty much sums it up for me: vastu samye chitta bhedat tayor vibhaktah pantah. My idea of yoga might not be the same as someone else’s idea of yoga. Sometimes a student comes to me, but what they want me to teach them is not what I teach. As a teacher, I have tried my best to convey to the students who have come to Jivamukti seeking instruction what I have learned. Some have found it valuable in their lives, others have not. I cannot control how others respond or what they deem important.
At the beginning, although I was an avid practitioner of yoga, I did not have the ambition to teach others. But when I gained the insight, through the study of Patanjali’s Yoga sutras, that by teaching yoga it could provide me with a platform to convey an animal rights/vegan message through a yogic perspective, then I did become a yoga teacher.
Although there might have been some resistance to the vegan/animal rights message at the beginning, I basically ignored the resistance and continued on, I had nothing to lose, no one to answer to but myself. I think the same goes for everything that we were teaching –the whole approach of Jivamukti Yoga was very radical at the time that we started teaching and it still is in many ways. To bring God into the practice, for example—whew that was not deemed by our peers as commercially viable. But David and I weren’t motivated to be successful commercially, so we were free to share what was dear to us and what was motivating our own personal practice.
Many people responded enthusiastically and wanted to practice what we were teaching, and it seems that that is still the case.
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Q: If you had to distill everything you’ve learned from your years of teaching into one piece of wisdom, what would it be?
Padma: What Patanjali says, in sutra 15 of the 4th pada, pretty much sums it up for me: vastu samye chitta bhedat tayor vibhaktah pantah. My idea of yoga might not be the same as someone else’s idea of yoga. Sometimes a student comes to me, but what they want me to teach them is not what I teach. As a teacher, I have tried my best to convey to the students who have come to Jivamukti seeking instruction what I have learned. Some have found it valuable in their lives, others have not. I cannot control how others respond or what they deem important.
At the beginning, although I was an avid practitioner of yoga, I did not have the ambition to teach others. But when I gained the insight, through the study of Patanjali’s Yoga sutras, that by teaching yoga it could provide me with a platform to convey an animal rights/vegan message through a yogic perspective, then I did become a yoga teacher.
Although there might have been some resistance to the vegan/animal rights message at the beginning, I basically ignored the resistance and continued on, I had nothing to lose, no one to answer to but myself. I think the same goes for everything that we were teaching –the whole approach of Jivamukti Yoga was very radical at the time that we started teaching and it still is in many ways. To bring God into the practice, for example—whew that was not deemed by our peers as commercially viable. But David and I weren’t motivated to be successful commercially, so we were free to share what was dear to us and what was motivating our own personal practice.
Many people responded enthusiastically and wanted to practice what we were teaching, and it seems that that is still the case.
Q: How can Yoga become part of our daily lives? I mean what can we do to integrate it in daily activities, even though they might seem mundane.
Padma: Work on changing your perception of what you think of and see as mundane and what you think of and see as “spiritual.” Offer all of your activities whether you are awake, dreaming or sleeping to God. Transform your whole life into seva. The yogic scriptures warn against getting entangled in worldly sense gratification, self-center ego enhancement. But they also give bhakti as a remedy for that. Don’t enjoy anything without inviting God to be with you when you do. Even before you take a sip of water—give it to God first. Go with God—vaya con dios. This is bhakti. When you bring bhakti, love for God, into your daily life then your life becomes sparkly and magical—certainly not mundane. Patanjali speaks of this in many ways: For example: when he talks about Ishwara Pranidhana Va PYS 1.23—offering your prana—your life, to God as the most direct means to yoga. Another place in the sutra is when he speaks about pratyahara as one of the practices that can bring you closer to yoga. Pratyahara means seeing God everywhere. When I asked one of my teachers, Pattabhi Jois, to explain to me what pratyahara was he pointed to a wall and asked me, “What is this? What do you see?”
I replied, “a wall?”
“Then you must practice pratyahara until you can see not just a wall, but God.”
Shyamdas speaks alot about nirodha as being a form of renunciation. Pratyahara is akin to nirodha. Nirodha happens naturally when one develops bhakti—they cease to identify with the citta vrittis of the mind and begin to see, to realize God’s presence in the world as well as in their hearts.
Yoga means to connect, or rather to re-connect with God. Chanting God’s name, chanting a mantra like Shri Krishnah sharanam mama is a good way to transcend the mundane thoughts and attitudes that the chitta vrittis exemplify. When you purify the contents of your mind with God’s name and elevated thoughts you will feel God’s presence in your mind, your heart and your life—then Maya’s veil of mundanity is lifted to reveal the truth—that this is all God’s Leela. I think this is what pratyahara is all about. When you shift your attention to the divine and are filled with His presence—that is true renunciation. When your senses withdraw away from the mundane and are given as an offering to the Divine, then to the bhakta, what was mundane before becomes divine!
Q: Can you please tell us more about the time spent in Mysore with Pattabhi Jois?
Padma: I loved Guruji Pattabhi Jois deeply and I know that he loved me too. To spend time with someone who you love and loves you is precious. My time with him was precious. With me, he was very generous with his time and with his wisdom.
When I first met him, during that first trip to Mysore when David Life, Eddie Stern and I traveled to meet him was interesting. We knocked on his door and he told us to come back later in the afternoon. We did and he took us upstairs to his little office. The first thing he asked me was, “What is your birthday? Tell me the month, day, time and place.” I thought that was interesting, especially when I saw that after he wrote the information down, he seemed to be doing some calculations. I just sat there and waited. A few minutes went by, and he said, “Ok you come back tomorrow afternoon.” He did the same for each of us. I learned later that he was an astrologer, in fact he was a descendent of a family of astrologers, who practice jyotish, the ancient Indian system of Vedic astrology. So, by calculating our charts maybe he was learning about us about our existing vasanas and samaras. Maybe this informed him of any proclivity we might have to the study of yoga.
Those first classes we had with him were special as we three were the only students in the room. He taught us a bit of the Ashtanga first series—not all of it. He didn’t teach us in the Mysore style, as we did not know the series. He led the class and verbally instructed us, and he did not give us any hands-on assists at that time. I can’t remember precisely but I think those first afternoon classes with him lasted only around 30-45 minutes.
Another very significant time with Pattabhi Jois was once when David and I were sitting with him and his grandson Sharat, and I asked him about his early days of teaching westerners. He described how there were a couple of westerners who came to Mysore and asked him to teach them, but he declined.
“Why?” I asked and he gave me this answer (and I am paraphrasing here):
“Because then I thought that everyone from the west ate meat and when you eat meat, you are not able to practice yoga because when you eat meat you have a stiff body, a stiff mind and a stiff heart.”
“But then you changed your opinion about westerners, when? and why?”
“Because I was surprised to learn that these westerners were vegetarians. They hadn’t been raised vegetarian. You see, I am a vegetarian because I was raised that way, my family from generations back never ate animals. It is part of our culture to be vegetarians. But these young westerners had chosen to be vegetarians. That was unusual, so I realized that they were sincere and really wanted to learn yoga and so I started to teach them.”
He knew that we were not only vegetarians but that we were vegans, and he accepted that as a good thing, although he did not become vegan but continued to include milk in his diet.
Q: What are the sources you think teachers can use today for spiritual talks / inspiration that were not available or not used when you first founded Jivamukti Yoga?
Padma: Read or listen to interviews/podcasts with the teachers of this lineage—with other Jivamukti teachers. Then you will learn more about yoga and specifically about yoga through the Jivamukti perspective. So many of the senior teachers of our lineage have given talks, interviews, written books and so much of their teaching are available through the internet. If you have specific questions or want clarification on specific issues or practices, you could reach out to those Jivamukti Yoga teachers and conduct your own interviews with them.
Read books that the founders of the Jivamukti Yoga method have written. Also read the books that they recommend. Study the teachings of their teachers, who have all influenced and informed what is known today as the Jivamukti Yoga method. Those teachers are Milan Goswami, Shyamdas, Pattabhi Jois, Brahmananda Saravati, and Swami Nirmalananda.
Listen and contemplate what you are hearing, allow it to expand your existing knowledge on a subject. Intelligence is after all, the ability to make connections—to put ideas together that might have seemed disparate before. This, along with your own daily practices and study of scripture will allow insights to occur within your own mind, and what you perceive as possible will shift as your consciousness expands. You will start to make connections, where before there were only disconnections. Our own concepts are expanded when we allow ourselves to be exposed to other points of views and have the good sense and humility to open our minds and listen. The formula is: Listen, Hear, Know, Become, Be. It starts with listening.
Q: How to deeply integrate Satya in one’s life?
Padma: Refine your speech. Before you say or do anything ask yourself these 3 questions:
Is it true? Is it kind? Is it necessary? The practice of Satya is the practice of telling the truth. God is the only real truth. The practices of japa, katha, and kirtan are very helpful in the practice of satya. Regarding veganism, the practice of satya is essential. The meat and dairy industries, as well as all the animal user industries, are built upon deceit and lies. These lies have become so ingrained in our culture that most people have come to believe them. For example, lies like:
- Humans are superior to animals. Animals exist for our benefit, we have the right to enslave, rape, own, and exploit them in any way we want to, simply because we can.
- We need to eat animals to be healthy—to get enough protein, calcium etc.
Keep in mind that forms of lying can fall under the category of exaggerating or being duplicitous by telling a partial truth which may twist the meaning.
Like all of the yamas and niyamas the practice of satya is very difficult and may take lifetimes to master or at least get the ‘hang of it.’ Truth is both relative and absolute. Most yogis find that after so many attempts to tell the truth and realizing how difficult it is they surrender to the name of God. You can never go wrong, meaning you can never defile your mind or your speech with lies, if you chant God’s name with loving devotion. God is the absolute truth. God’s name and God are the same.
Q: (For the 75hr TTs) Can you speak about the Jivamukti Spiritual Warrior sequence, how it came about and any reflections on it?
Padma: Like all the codified sequences, methodologies and practices that have come to define what Jivamukti Yoga is, the Spiritual Warrior sequence was created out of compassion and practical necessity. These are some of the reasons that instigated the creation of the Spiritual Warrior class:
- I recognized that many Jivamukti Yoga teachers found it difficult to deliver a spiritual talk in an open level class. It is not necessary to deliver such a talk in the Spiritual Warrior class.
- I also observed that many students, for whatever reason, found it difficult to sit and listen to those talks.
- Many Jivamukti Yoga teachers found it difficult to compose a class sequence that was safe and sound for students. By safe and sound, I mean, a sequence that was intelligent in design and would not put students at risk of injury. The Spiritual Warrior set sequence assures that the class is safe and sound for the students attending.
- Many teachers felt uncomfortable giving hands on assists to students. In a Spiritual Warrior class it is not mandatory for a teacher to give assists, rather it is optional, in fact a teacher can demonstrate and even practice the class along with the students, if they choose. Whereas in an Open level class, a teacher does not relie on demonstrating in order to communicate, but rather on verbal instruction and hands on assists.
- The school needed a one-hour class for busy people that still contained the necessary components that would deliver a shift in consciousness experience for the practitioner in an efficient and timely way—not just asana but shavasana and meditation too.
- Personally, for myself, with all of my administrative duties, when I was the director of the Jivamukti Yoga School in NYC, I often would not have the time to take a 90-minute class, so the Spiritual Warrior was perfect for me. Also, I would not be expected by the teacher to give feedback/critique after class. Whereas if I would take an open or basics class, the teacher who taught would often want to discuss the class with me afterwards. These discussions could be very stressful for both of us. Practicing the Spiritual Warrior for me was a stress-free yoga experience.
- Most styles of yoga taught today teach set sequences, with little room for creativity. For example, Ashtanga, and Sivananda. Before the Jivamukti Spiritual Warrior, the Jivamukti classes offered were the Open class, Basic class, Beginner Vinyasa class, and Private classes—all of which demand that a teacher be creative and able to improvise on the spot and create and compose asana sequences, spiritual talks, playlists and give hands on assists and not demonstrate. When teaching a Spiritual Warrior class all these responsibilities are lifted from the teacher.
- Offering a 75-hour non-residential teacher training course where upon graduation a student is ready to teach a good class sequence is a gift to those students. The Spiritual Warrior provides them with that gift—a tool that they can start teaching yoga immediately.
Q: Do you feel the core teachings of Jivamukti have evolved since its inception? Should they evolve?
Padma: The core teachings of Jivamukti Yoga are the same as they were at the beginning. Teaching Yoga as a path to compassion for all beings, which are further elucidated by the five tenets. Also core to Jivamukti Yoga is a deep understanding about how the practice of asana is a way to purify one’s karmas to lead to enlightenment. I think the students of Jivamukti yoga through integrating the core teachings of the method can awaken to the realization that they are not their body or mind. They can begin to understand that they are an eternal transcendental soul (the atman) and this will lead to the awakening of bhakti—love for God and lovers of God are naturally kind to others.
Q: Are there qualities that are essential for a Jivamukti teacher or student today, and how has that list changed from when you first began teaching?
Padma: Jivamukti Yoga is practiced and taught as a path to enlightenment though compassion for all beings. The purpose of life is to lovingly remember God and be kind to others. I don’t think those qualities need to change. But how one integrates those qualities into their own lives as a teacher or as a student practitioner will evolve according to how the teacher or student perceives one another.
The great yogi, Krishnamacharya (Pattabhi Jois’s teacher) gives some good advice about what it takes to be a good yoga teacher:
- Be part of a lineage
- Have a daily practice
- Really like people
I think these are all great virtues.
When you are with a student, be of service to that student—throw your ego out the window. You have to be willing to be humble and to see the students in front of you as holy beings having something to teach you. The relationship between teacher and student must be mutually beneficial. This is where compassion comes in. Compassion is the key. The ego is incapable of compassion. You have to be compassionate to be a good teacher. Compassion is not the same as sympathy or empathy. Remember, Jivamukti Yoga is a path to enlightenment through compassion for all beings. This doesn’t only mean to be compassionate to animals it also means to allow compassion to guide you in the classroom when you are teaching yoga to students. Compassion literally means to feel together, but the term also encompasses the motivation to relieve suffering, understanding that when you relieve the suffering of another, your own suffering will be relieved too. All yoga practices are designed to awaken compassion, and by means of compassion, dissolve the illusion of separateness. Remember that how you treat your teacher(s) will be how ‘your’ students will treat you when you are in the position of a teacher.
Q: What is a misconception people often have about you or Jivamukti Yoga that you wish you could correct?
Padma: Recently I was reading a book and there was a chapter about yoga that listed different styles of yoga. Jivamukti Yoga was described like this: Ashtanga Yoga done to upbeat music, a style created by Sharon Gannon and her husband David Life.
In response to that I would say: Jivamukti Yoga is not Ashtanga yoga practiced to upbeat music, and I am not married to David.
Jivamukti Yoga is taught as a path to enlightenment and offers a variety of yoga practices including but not limited to vigorous vinyasa classes, basic alignment classes, restorative classes, and its own meditation practice. It is founded upon an approach to the practice of asana as a means to purify one’s karma and improve a person’s relationship to the earth, God, others and themselves.
It is built upon five foundational tenets: ahimsa (nonviolence, emphasizing veganism), bhakti (devotion to God), dhyana (meditation), nada (musical vibration), and shastra (the study and chanting of Sanskrit scripture).
Perhaps if people allow themselves to delve deeply into the method and the variety of practices that Jivamukti offers, they might understand how far-ranging it is. But you know, people will see things as they see things. I am not interested in criticizing others—that kind of activity is a sure way to destroy one’s bhav and peace of mind.
Q: Jivamukti integrates the teachings of ahimsa(non-violence), bhakti (devotion), dhyana (meditation), nada (sound), and shastra (scripture). Which of these pillars do you believe is most misunderstood or under-practiced by modern yogis, and why?
Padma: In general, I would say that yogis, or even human beings in general, have difficulty embracing Ahimsa and Bhakti. I know most modern yoga practitioners are not vegan –they still eat meat, eggs and or dairy products. Many are atheists. Or maybe some believe in God but don’t feel it is appropriate to talk about God in the classroom out of fear. Maybe some are vegan but don’t talk about it when they teach yoga, also out of fear. Fear holds people back. People are afraid to mention God and afraid of not getting enough protein or insulting grandma at thanksgiving by not eating turkey or afraid of alienating students and losing their paying job as a yoga teacher.
Yoga is about connecting to God, period. God is love so being kind to animals and not torturing, murdering and eating them is a natural outcome of bhakti, love for God. The Jivamukti Yoga method is founded upon these concepts.
Q: Jivamukti places a strong emphasis on asanaas a spiritual practice, not just a physical one. How has your own understanding of asana evolved over the years, and how do you see this evolution reflected in the Jivamukti method. In the early days, Jivamukti introduced dynamic and challenging asana sequences that were innovative for their time. Do you feel there’s still room for innovation in asana today, or should we be focusing more on preserving traditional postures?
Padma: Many see asana practice as just another form of physical exercise. Asana practice, like any activity in life, appears according to how you see it. It is what you make it to be. The Jivamukti approach to asanas is from a yogic perspective—which means an approach that purifies your mind and heart and elevates your perception of reality. Yoga means to connect with God. It doesn’t mean to connect to your body, or to your mind, your personality, or to your ego. As unenlightened beings we are driven by I, Me, and Mine. As spiritual philosopher Deepak Chopra said, “Humans think only of what is good for me and mine without realizing that me and mine is entangled with all of existence.”
Yoga practices, including asana, are designed to free us from those ignorant, negative, self-centered driving forces. Patanjali describes yoga as, yogash chitta vritti nirodha. When we cease (nirodha) to focus all of our attention on our thoughts (chitta vrittis), the fluctuations of the mind, then what will be left is our soul, the atman, which will reveal to us the presence of God within us and within all others. But first we have to stop (nirodha) identifying with the chitta vrittis—our thoughts, which are bound up with I, Me and Mine.
There is so much room for innovation in asana sequences—just don’t let your ego—your selfish motivations lead the way. Check your intention. Having experienced many injuries myself in the practice of various approaches to different styles of yoga, I have tried to codify asana sequences which, if taught correctly, do not lead to physical injury and yet challenge the student to explore deep rooted karmic resistances—I think this is important.The practice should help you remember God, the atman, and then you will be able to let go of selfish desires and be a kinder more caring person to others. So, it comes down to finding ways to bring God into everything you do—including the practice of asana.
I feel that one of the important and least understood innovations of the Jivamukti Yoga method is how asanas can be the key to resolving one’s karmas. The practice of asana can help you purify, meaning resolve, your past karmas. Our unresolves karmas are intertwined with experiences we have had with others, with how we see others, how we see ourselves, how we see the Earth, how we see God. Each asana is connected to a chakra, a chakra is a portal, a sort of stargate enabling one to enter a dimension, a level of perceiving reality.
This Jivamukti innovation is explored in the Chakra Tuning class and is also thoroughly discussed in my books, Yoga and Veganism and Eternity is Happening Now.
This is radical stuff. Jivamukti Yoga is a radical approach. Not everyone is ready or wants to go down the rabbit whole. But for those who are brave and willing to let go of what they think they know—about themselves—about reality, it provides vast opportunities, to let go of the known in order to cognize an awareness of a greater potential for experience. With knowledge, then the experience of asana can yield a magical transformational shift in perception.
Q: What is the goal or purpose of advanced asanas?
Padma: As a last resort, to bring about the awakening of humility within the practitioner. My teacher, Pattabhi Jois, said that advanced asanas are for people who are unable to be happy with simple things—like basic asanas, or being kind to others and remembering God. Let us remember that the purpose of asana, as a yogic practice, to purify our karmas so that we can uncover our innate happiness. The danger in wanting to perform, advanced asanas in front of others, is that such a goal could enhance your ego rather than make you a kinder more devotional person. It can increase your desire to be acknowledged for your accomplishments, you know, showing off: “Look what I can do!”
Another way, perhaps a more positive way, to look at the practice of difficult asanas is to see that when we face the challenges of practicing them or trying to practice them, going through all that physical, mental, emotional and spiritual turmoil that they churn up within us, we can then better handle what’s in front of us off the mat—the everyday challenges that life brings us. We can move through the rest of our day with more ease and confidence.
Padma: I would add nothing to the 14 points of an Open Level Jivamukti Yoga class.
Q: There’s often debate about whether yoga should evolve by creating new postures and sequences. Do you think it’s important to innovate within asana, or should we remain strict and loyal to traditional sequences?
Padma: hmm, I am not sure what you mean by traditional sequences or postures.
Fifteen asanas are described in the Hatha Yoga Pradipika, the traditional source book.
I tend to cringe when a word like pose or posture is used to describe asana. Asana means relationship—one’s relationship to the Earth, all other beings and ultimately with God. I can’t approach an asana as a static pose, because relationships are not static—they’re dynamic. When you try to hold something, you will lose it—asana practice teaches us how to let go and let energy flow through you. It’s about exchange. You feel yourself as a conduit, a vehicle. Relationships are communicative.
Q: As Jivamukti Yoga grows, should teachers be encouraged to develop their own unique approaches or sequences within the framework, or should the method remain more prescriptive and uniform across the global community?
Padma: Within a Jivamukti there is much room for creativity. This has always been the case. Think of the Open Class or the Basic 4-week course—the focus of the month—the list goes on.
Q: In the modern yoga scene, there is increasing experimentation with creating new asanas or blending yoga with other movement practices. Do you think there’s value in this experimentation, or should Jivamukti stay focused on refining traditional postures?
Padma: What other people do does not concern me. I am committed to the Jivamukti Yoga method. I find it complete, creative and rewarding as is.
Q: Should we include / invite teachings and resources / research and insights from experts outside of the method? E.g. Richard Freeman, Eddie Stern etc?
Padma: I am very much in favor of continuing education and have always encouraged others to seek out knowledge. There is always something to be learned by putting yourself in the position of being a student. Listening to a teacher is humbling, rewarding and essential for growth. Respecting a teacher elevates them. What makes a teacher an expert is that you, the student regard them as an expert. It is always up to the student how a teacher is perceived. To become an expert at any subject takes time, attention and devotion. For that reason, many choose to focus on one discipline, in order to master it. But that one discipline may be enriched through exposure to other points of view.
Jivamukti Yoga schools and the Jivamukti Yoga Teacher Trainings exist as a repository of the method—sources that one can go to, to learn the methodology of Jivamukti Yoga.
It is true that at our JYTT we often invite guests to teach certain sessions, and these guests may not be Jivamukti Certified teachers. I am referring to Milan Goswami, Lori Zucker and Manorama, in particular. This could appear like we are inviting experts outside of the method. But on closer look, even though they are not certified JY teachers, one will see that what they are offering is aligned with the Jivamukti methodology and not outside the method. What they teach at our TT is not contradictory to the precepts of Jivamukti Yoga.
(Shri Milanbaba Goswami, a direct descendent of Shri Vallabhacharya is my Pushtimarg guru. All Jivamukti teachers receive the Pushtimarg 8-syllable mantra Shri Krishnah sharanam mama through his grace. Anatomy expert, Lori, being a long time Jivamukti student practitioner her teaching of anatomy has been informed by Jivamukti. Sanskrit expert, Manorama, being a disciple of Shri Brahmananda Sarasvati, is aligned with the Jivamukti method.)
There are many different styles of yoga practices, each style has its distinguishing features. Although Ashtanga, Sivananda, and Jivamukti, for example, are all considered ‘yoga’, and can actually be classified as Hatha Yoga, each has its unique approach which distinguish its style. I think it is good to examine different types of practices, philosophies and methodologies as it could lead to an understanding of similarities.
That being said, my feeling is that if you are entrusted with teaching at a Jivamukti Teacher Training course, or at a Jivamukti Studio where you are being invited to teach a Jivamukti Open class or a week one Basic class, or a Spiritual Warrior class etc., then the students who come to you to learn Jivamukti Yoga deserve to be taught Jivamukti yoga, according to the methodology that has been already established, and not another style of yoga.
Q: How can we protect the Method of Jivamukti while keeping up with the recent discoveries around anatomy / asana / energetics and alignment?
Padma: I really do not know what you are referring to as ‘recent discoveries around anatomy / asana / energetics and alignment, so, I am unable to answer this question without more elaboration.
Q: Is the Jivamukti yoga method a closed / fixed method? Do we have room to explore new ways to practice the same asana? E.g. Pelvis squared during twists? Backbends and twists? Pointing vs Flexing toes in certain asanas?
Padma: Jivamukti Yoga is a creative approach to asana, while at the same time, an intelligent and safe approach, which puts the intention underlying the practice as the top priority. Before practicing or doing any activity ask yourself: Am I offering this to God? Will this activity increase my bhav? Will this bring me closer to God? Will this awaken me to my soul, the atman?
Q: Female cycles: what are your reflections on asana practice and menstruation, menopause and post?
Padma: When I was younger and still had my periods, I took a break from the practice of asana during menstruation. I feel that each woman should decide for herself. Menopause came when I was fifty. I was fortunate that it was not accompanied by any negative experiences. I attribute that ease to having eaten a vegan diet for decades before.
Q: How can teachers protect themselves from attaching their self-worth / self-validation to their professional job?
Padma: Remember your true purpose in life—and renounce the desire to be acknowledged for your accomplishments. None of us are capable of doing anything on our own. Try to remember that you can only serve—serve your teacher, serve God and serve others. Be humble. Do your best to become an instrument for God’s will, not your ego’s. See others as providing you with opportunities to serve unconditionally without expectation of reward. Read the advice that Krishna gives in the Bhagavad Gita about renouncing the fruits of your actions. Live to serve. Free yourself from the desire to be acknowledged for your accomplishments. This will help you overcome the egoic I, me, mine syndrome, that commonly motivates people.
Q: Are you willing to speak about the line between the teacher and the person, and why imperfections or behavioural issues of the person behind the teacher should not define the teacher or the teachings they bring forward?
Padma: Each person will see an object or a situation, or another person in the way that they will. Everyone makes their own choices. We choose what we say and what we think about someone. We decide if someone is good or bad. Finding fault with others doesn’t increase your bhav or your Self-confidence. But through the cultivation of bhakti, love for God, love will be awakened in your heart, and with it—compassion and forgiveness will flourish, and you will be able to see the good in others because you will feel the goodness of the atman within yourself, and you will see it in another and that is a sattvic devotional connection. You will utilize your association with your teacher to enhance your own bhav—your aspiration to evolve spiritually.
Q: Can we still find a Guru or the experience of guru in a society where abuse / cult / brainwash is screamed about every 5 mins? Can we find Guru when all answers are available to us via AI / Internet?
Padma: I think the old saying still holds true: When the student is ready the teacher will appear.
Many people instead of training and disciplining themselves for 10-20 years, think they can get enlightened in just 10 minutes from information they found on the internet. There’s involved in developing spiritually than information. An aspiring yogi needs guidance from someone who won’t just feed their head and cram in with information, but will call them out, when necessary, will cater to their particular needs and situation. It is important to have a living guide—someone you can bow to, a teacher that you can have a back-and-forth live discussion with. This is satsang. Satsang is good association. Good association is THE practice for the Kali Yuga.
Q: Can you tell us about the process of putting together the Jivamukti Lavender Lotion and (Aulief) China Gel?
Padma: Back in the early 1990s one of the regular Jivamukti yoga students, who attended classes was a massage therapist. She gifted me with a massage session. The first thing she did was to apply this wonderful soothing gel on my neck. Afterwards I asked her what it was, and she showed me a jar of China-Gel and said that she had found it in a small shop in the Chinatown district of NYC. The next day I went to that shop and bought the last jar of the lime green gel and started using it when I gave assists to students in classes. Everyone loved it. There was a US address on the back of the jar and so I contacted the company and bought cases of it and gave it to the other teachers to use in classes.
Our Jivamukti Yoga School started to become very popular which prompted lots of media interest. We were being asked to give interviews and received invitations to teach at conferences. Whenever and wherever we taught China Gel became an essential teaching tool, especially when giving hands on assists. Pretty soon everyone was asking about it. About a year, later, I received a call from the owner of the China Gel company thanking me. She told me that when she inherited the company, it wasn’t doing that good, but since Jivamukti had taken an interest, her sales had skyrocketed. She was very grateful.
The hands on assists we were doing was quite new in the yoga community. At that time most yoga teachers did not touch students. They taught mainly by demonstrating “poses” in front of a classroom and students were expected to imitate. We didn’t teach that way. Assisting lots of people in a class was very physically demanding for us as teachers. As the classes became more and more popular there were more students to assist. We began using China Gel primarily at the beginning of a class and during the sun salutations. Even though I took many trips to a nearby sink to wash my hands during a class, the repeated use of China Gel started to noticeable stain my hands green.
Everything was going fine except that I was bothered by the fact that the product was lime green. Why the coloring? The owner of the company assured me that it was a natural non-toxic approved color and that no one had complained before, including her medical clients, mostly doctors, and physical therapists who had been buying from her for years. The color gave it a “cooling natural look,” she said. I wasn’t sold on that reasoning.
Besides China Gel, I started to also use various essential oils and organic lotions on my hands as a disinfectant when touching students and also for the aroma therapy component, especially soothing for the students during the shavasana section of a class.
I researched and discovered the highly respected company Elizabeth Van Buren, which specialized in products made with organic botanicals. We partnered with them to create our signature Jivamukti Lavender Lotion. Everyone seemed to love this lotion.
Meanwhile the owner of China Gel wanted to form a partnership or private labeling with us. I asked if she would consider reevaluating her formula and make an organic color free version. She hesitated, as she didn’t think it would sell if it was white, but after some negotiation she and her team reluctantly agreed and came up with a special Jivamukti White China Gel product.
I remember the day when she sent a few samples of the new white version. I was in the Jivamukti Yoga School office in Manhattan and asked various members of my staff to try the new product and compare it to the regular green China Gel. Everyone said, “The white one is nice, but it’s not as strong.” Then I asked a few people to sit down and close their eyes while I rubbed the new white product on one side of their neck and the green China Gel on the other side and asked if they could sense a difference. No one could. From that I was convinced that it was the visual allure of the lime green China Gel that suggested to people it was a stronger and more natural product. Looks sure can be deceiving! Ha ha!
The company produced our organic white version. In the end the company phrased out their original green China Gel and now only produce the white version under a new branding they call Aulief.
Jivamukti Yoga is fiercely committed to environmentalism, we do not want to promote any product or lifestyle that compromises our earth or the health and well-being of any earthling. This is why we are committed to a vegan, organic, earth-friendly lifestyle.
Q: How did the Jivamukti Yoga Book come together?
Padma: With a little help from our friends, Sting and Trudie Styler, who were Jivamutki students. First, they suggested that we should write a book, then they introduced us to Joel Gotler, a literary agent, who wanted to represent us. Joel secured a publishing deal. David and I went to work on the book and Sting graciously wrote the foreword. Around that same time Joel also secured another publishing deal to publish a large format photo, featuring the photos taken of us by renown photographer Martin Brading, a Jivamukti Yoga student. That book was The Art of Yoga. Trudie Styler had the idea that Ravi and Anoushka Shankar would be perfect to write the foreword and introduced us to them and they said yes. Both books were published in 2002.
The Jivamukti Yoga book went on to be a “best seller” and used as a textbook in many non-Jivamukti teacher training courses. The book gives a brief history of the roots of yoga in general as well as a brief history of David and my backgrounds and the various influences and teachers we have had who have informed the development of the method. It describes our approach to asana, along with photos of asana sequences and sample classes. It describes our foundational five tenants, Ahimsa, Bhakti, Dhyana, Nada and Sastra. It puts the spotlight on kirtan and the kirtan musicians, like Krishna das, Jai Uttal, Bhagavan das, Shyamdas and others, helping to give credibility to this genre of music. It cites the major contribution that the Beatles made to the development of Yoga in our time. It describes in detail the Jivamukti method of meditation and the importance of Sanskrit and scripture study. It introduces our gurus. It underlines the importance of Bhakti, devotion to God in a yoga practice. It speaks about karma. It seriously emphasises veganism as a necessity for a yoga practitioner. At the time it was published it was quite radical for many reasons. One of which is that it contained photos of abused animals in factory farms and laboratories and slaughterhouses.
Prior to the publication of The Art of Yoga, if you wanted to see what yoga asanas looked like the only book available at that time was BKS Iyengar’s Light on Yoga. The Art of Yoga book was pretty radical at the time, because it showed photos of modern American practitioners, and each photo was accompanied by an original poetic verse—it was artsy and fun.
Q: Can you speak about the time when Madonna and others practiced at Jivamukti Yoga?
Padma: Celebrities like so-called ‘other’ people who attended Jivamukti classes at the time, came for the same reason. We were unapologetically God-centered. At the time, no other yoga studio was so upfront with that. It was a very busy time when we first opened the Jivamukti Yoga School on 2nd Avenue and 9th Street, NYC in the late 1980s. The classes were packed with students, and there were lines of people outside hoping to get into a class. Many students would come early to register for a class on their way to work and then come back in time for the 6 or 6:30 class. Celebrities started to show up along with everyone else. Diane Keaton, Donna Karan, Christy Turlington, Joan Jett, Russell Simmons, Willem DaFoe, and Sting were on their mats among the rest. By the time we moved to a bigger location on Lafayette Street in 1998 word had spread and more and more students were attending classes. In was NYC after all, a place where a wide range of people focused on a variety of occupations lived and worked. Is there really such a thing as an ordinary person? Everyone is a star. At that time, it seemed like you could open the door to a class in one of the rooms and see, doctors, lawyers, teachers, taxi drivers, security guards, poets, artists, writers, designers, models, dancers, choreographers, musicians, actors, movie directors, rabbis, priests, and politicians all together practicing. Russell Simmons was in class every day and brought many of his friends and associates from the hip-hop community to class with him.
It was Sting and his wife Trudie who urged many of their friends including Madonna to come to Jivamukti at that time. Madonna only came to a few classes; she was not a regular Jivamukti student. I think she preferred Ashtanga.
I think these high-profile people as well as everyone felt safe coming to Jivamukti—they were not going to get gawked at or approached for a photo or something. Everyone was just a student in that very hot and sweaty room, focused and doing their best to chant God’s names in Sanskrit, listen to the opening talk, usually expounding on veganism, breathe, and follow the asana instructions coming from whoever was teaching the class.
Q: How would you respond to those that do not think Yoga should be commercialized and turned into a business? How do we marry the content/intention of these practices and teachings with the financial goals for a studio / teacher etc.?
Padma: I would respond by saying that when you become a teacher and/ or a studio owner you will have to figure that out for yourself. But from my experience, may I suggest that you make sure that you contemplate your motive for wanting to be a teacher or for wanting to open a studio. Does your intention include God? Does your intention align with the real purpose of life. What do you see as your life’s purpose?
Yoga means God-realization. As soon as you leave God out of it you will struggle. If it is only about the money, then where’s the yoga in it? To those who serve God and don’t worry about the fruits of their actions it will all be taken care of, but once money is the goal and focus, that intention is thrown out the window and what you will be left with is endless struggles.
May I tell you a story? When David and I first opened the Jivamukti Yoga School on 2nd Avenue and 9th Street, NYC, in the 1980s, we were invited by a group of New York yoga teachers to a meeting, the idea was to form a group and draw up a ‘Statement of Purpose,” a sort of manifesto which would act as a cohesive guideline for all New York area yoga studio owners.
We sat in a circle. There was a moderator, someone who had been teaching yoga for many years in NYC. All the other people assembled were also studio owners and seasoned yoga teachers. We were the new kids on the block. Our moderator opened the forum by stating the indention underlying the meeting, then said, “Let’s go around the circle and each of us will share: ‘Why we practice yoga,’ and ‘Why we teach yoga.’ I will write everyone’s ideas down, then we will combine the best ideas and come up with our manifesto.
When our chance to speak came, I said, “We practice yoga to realize God.”
David added, and we teach yoga for basically the same reason—to share with others, what we have discovered, through our practice, about God-realization.”
Everyone in the room burst out laughing!
After the laughter died down, I asked the moderator, “Sorry I missed the joke, why is everyone laughing, including yourself?” and he replied,
“You can’t use the ‘G’ word! This is NYC! We understand that you just opened your center and are just starting out. You both seem sincere, but a bit naïve. Many of us have heard that you have pictures on the walls of saints, gods and goddesses and that you have altars and chant in Sanskrit, and you are vegan. Well, let us give you a rude awakening: You won’t be able to stay open for very long. Talking about God in a yoga center is not commercially viable and veganism—certainly not.”
That was the last time we attended one of their meetings.
Q: Is it possible to live in a capitalist society and still practice aparigraha in a meaningful way?
Padma: Yes, I think so. Patanjali suggests aparigraha as a practice, and practice implies that you do your best. We all live in a capitalist society. For me I find it to be a waste of energy to complain about it. I feel it is much more exciting to try to dismantle it. To that aim I try my best to practice aparigraha, as well as all the yamas and niyamas wherever I am. Life is short, eternity is long.
Aparigraha means greedlessness. How to practice that? Be more of a giver than a taker. Be frugal with what you consume, be generous and give to others, care about the well-being and happiness of others, and trust that God will provide you with what you need. Treat others and this planet how you would like to be treated. Put others before yourself.
Live to enhance the lives of others and the life of this planet. How? Reduce your consumption. First of all, the most important thing you can do is to be vegan—then be vocal about it. Talk to others—spread the word about veganism. Be conservative in what you consume, rather than greedy. Don’t waste water—don’t run the tap when you don’t need to. Stop flushing the toilet every time you pee. Did you know that in NYC alone we flush more than 50% of our fresh water down the toilet? We human beings are the only land mammals who pee and poop in water. It’s really a crazy ‘makes-no-sense’ kind of habit.
Don’t throw food away compost it. Your leftovers can feed the earth, replenish the soil. Choose to walk or ride a bicycle when you can. Turn off lights whenever you can. Wear old clothes, rather than buying new ones. Care about if others are getting enough to eat and fresh water to drink—feed the birds, provide food and clean water for animals who might not have access to any. When you live in a city it is easy to be selfish and greedy, actually it is even expected. But you can become more conscious of what you use and how much—if you want to. See aparigraha, as Patanjali suggests—as a practice and do your best to be conservative in what you use. Remember that the Earth does not belong to us. Animals do not belong to us.
How about you—how to you practice aparigraha in a meaningful way?
Q: Can you speak to the quality of being a charismatic performer as a yoga teacher and how to stay true to the core of the yogic teachings, since charisma in a yoga teacher is sometimes frowned upon?
Padma: If a teacher really knows ‘their stuff’—if they have already humbled themselves before a teacher, disciplined themselves and studied as well as adhered to a regular practice of yoga, there will naturally arise in that teacher an ease of being, a confidence that comes from being connected to the atman, which is the divine source within, and that will manifest as charisma. They will be able to communicate with the students rather than professing what they think they know. Being a charismatic teacher who feels comfortable enough to tell stories and jokes will create a fun experience in a classroom for everyone and can encourage a student to relax. Rigidity, tension and stress are not conducive to learning anything—especially yoga. In my experience, enlightened wise teachers aren’t boring, shy, serious types.
An entertainer is basically a storyteller. Traditionally spiritual teachings were conveyed through stories. Think of the Upanishads, the Mahabharata or the Shrimad Bhagavatam. Telling stories and jokes is a way to capture someone’s attention. A good teacher, a sattvic teacher, can use stories and jokes and other tools like funny costumes to draw the students’ attention and then direct that attention towards the teachings. But there can be danger for the teacher if that teacher is charismatic and able to draw the student’s attention but instead of directing that attention towards the teachings, they will keep it for themselves and use it to feed their ego. This would be an example of a tamasic teacher who uses their charisma to manipulate others.